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AALS CEO Kelly Testy says law schools must link education to access to justice and expand clinical training
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Summary
On the Talk Justice podcast, Kelly Testy, executive director and CEO of the Association of American Law Schools, said law schools have expanded clinical and experiential programs that help close the civil justice gap, but funding and paid public‑interest jobs remain limited.
Kelly Testy, executive director and CEO of the Association of American Law Schools, told listeners of the Talk Justice podcast that law schools today are more intentionally tying legal education to the work of closing the civil justice gap.
"Equal access to justice is a core American value," the episode's announcer states at the start, and Testy said law schools are responding with more clinics, externships and experiential credits that place students in community legal ecosystems. "Students take many more credits, for credit under the tutelage of clinical faculty," she said, describing how clinics and externships expose students to practice and bring community lawyers into classrooms.
Testy said those experiences benefit multiple parties: they give students practical problem‑solving skills, expand the law school's connections to the community, and provide services to people with unmet legal needs. She added that experiential programs also help students evaluate how they want to practice law and provide opportunities for adjunct practitioners to contribute to teaching.
But Testy warned that law schools cannot solve access problems alone. She said the limiting factor is the number of paid public‑interest positions available: "The problem was there weren't enough jobs for those students and not enough paid opportunities for them to be able to get the experience in the summers that would continue to hone their pathway." On the episode, hosts and Testy noted the growing gap between top private firm starting salaries (a figure mentioned in the conversation—first‑year associates at some firms advertised well over $200,000) and typical pay for public‑interest roles, which constrains students facing debt.
Testy urged broader investment in legal services funding so that students who want to pursue public‑interest careers could do so without being forced by finances into higher‑paying private work. She framed the solution as systemic: schools should continue to encourage public interest work, but government and philanthropic funding are also necessary to create and sustain paid positions.
The conversation ranged from Testy's own path to law school—she described being a first‑generation college graduate who waited about five years after undergrad before attending law school—to the broader shift in legal education away from a purely doctrinal focus and toward experiential learning that engages with the lives of clients.
The episode closed with the hosts thanking Testy and a standard disclaimer that the guest's views are her own and not legal advice. There were no formal proposals, votes or policy actions announced during the episode.
